Lehtovaara. Back on my radar

Sorry for not posting of the Charlie Nessons presentation. This follow up to one of my first ever blog posts seemed more important: Ravintola Lehtovaara. My first post was in "food and drink" category now it has to move to "Law".

I received a threat letter from a law firm. They are demanding me to take down my letter that is criticizing Ravintola Lehtovaara. I guess the fact that my letter is second in a Google search right after restaurants own page could make a difference.

I sent them the letter after we received really bad service. My letter is really objective and it is just pointing the difficulties the waiters had during our dinner. Seemed that Lehtovaara that is normally considered to be a good restaurant had a really bad day. The service was just unacceptably bad: (food was cold, we had to beg for water, the waiter started arguing about a wine bottle gone bad, wrong food, slow and unprofessional service. You get the picture). They never replied to it. So i put it on line and blogged it. One and a half years after our night in Lehtovaara i got a threatening email.

The legal threat letter was sent by a member of Finnish BAR Antero Molander who also owns the restaurant. The letter is demanding 5000 euros per month for the damages to the restaurant. It all adds to well over 80.000 euros plus interest. The best part of the letter is: "because you don't work in the restaurant business, you can't simply understand the damages." They don't question the facts in my letter. Threat letter just says that I should pay the damages the restaurant has suffered.  What what WHAT! Even the first year law student understands that this sort of criticism based on true facts cant lead to damages. Think about a legal system where restaurants could sue journalist that write crushing review of a restaurant...

Threats don't stop here. The letter also says that the chef will also demand damages later on. The best thing.. I never critisised the food. Just the service :)

Wait there is still more! They will start the criminal investigation against me if I don't take down the letter.

They apparently hadn't done any background checks. I have taught law and technology in several universities, I am a founding member of one of the biggest cyber rights organization in Europe and have defended publicly digital freedom of expression. Do they really think that they have a winning strategy? I am sure that many people would have rushed to take down the content. Not me. I will see their bluff.

Lehtovaara bring it on!

Update: I posted the letter here.

Comments

[David Paul]

I think I and my friends will stay clear of a restaurant that threatens to take legal action against customers who do not favourably publicise the level of service it provides. Hang in there.

Terveisiä itä-Helsingistä

[Teemu Arina]

Lehtovaara is fighting against wind mills. A company probably totally ignorant of the web so far will probably face the network effect if they continue to pursue their pointless legal threat. The issue is hot and no surprise it's on BoingBoing already.

[David]

all i've got to say is GOOD FOR YOU HERKKO! there are alot of ignorant assholes out there who think they can bully people around and get their way through intimidation. i hope this restaraunt goes out of business and the owner loses his law practice/bar position because of his stupidity. i don't even know this guy and i wish i could punch him in the face.

[Eirik Solheim]

Lehtovaara had two options:

1. Answer your letter, give an apology and a voucher for a dinner. Maybe they could have fixed the bad impression.

2. Sue you

Boy, was that a bad decition?

a) Give bad service = not good
b) Not answering your letter = plain stupid
c) Sue you = priceless

As I have stated on my blog:
http://www.eirikso.com/2005/06/26/legal-threats-and-the-internet/

"If there existed a list of the five worst people to sue for a case like this, Mr. Herkko would be on it."

Go for it!

[Jussi Havu & Tuomo Urrila]

It was quite funny to read Herkko's blog and find out about the threat letter he had received. We were at Ravintola Lehtovaara that night, one and a half years ago, when this story started. And we can agree with Herkko that the service was bad. We didn't take the lousy service personally and therefore didn't bother to write a letter to the restaurant but in our opinion Herkko had every reason to do so.

We understand that posting the complain letter on the web hurts Ravintola Lehtovaara's business but that's no reason to send a ridiculous threat letter. They could have taken care of things nicely by replying to the original letter. This is a very expensive way to take care of customer feedback.

[Bob]

Hmmm... the aftertaste of a bad meal. Well if they sue their customers, who will want to eat there again? [now that everybody knows]

[Phil]

I'd betcha if they would have instead invited you back for a free dinner - you would have been more than happy to remove that letter.

Everyone knows that people (and restaurants) make mistakes - they made a mistake that night giving you poor service. No problem, give a free dinner and make things better. But instead they threatened with a lawsuit, and now their name will be tarnished even further.

[e-z]

Whoa! That's really really weird behaviour from the owner... 80k is definitely off the hook - please keep us posted on what happens next!

[Matti Saarinen]

I am not surprised to read that Herkko has received bad service in Lehtovaara. I have visited the restaurant only once and I will never go there again. The waitress was really arrogant. She brought me wrong wine and the accused me of pointing the wrong wine from the list. When I ordered the wine I told the waitress what wine wanted. Then the food, it was simply bad. I have rarely eaten fish that has been prepared so poorly and I wish I never need to do it again. It was lunchtime, so starters and dessert had to picked from the buffet. The quality was what you can expect from the food that has been lying around hour or two. Simply afwul experience. Luckily, I wasn't paying the bill.

[t-p]

I don't have any reason to believe what mr. Herkko says would not be true, but still: this is Internet. Anybody can write whatever he/she wishes. Therefore one should remember: we have heard only one side of the story. Without any evidence (f.ex. copies of the letter from the attorney) this might as well be just another Internet hoax.

[erik bunn]

Let me add a voice of dissatisfaction at Lehtovaara.

Several years ago - about '97 or so - we reserved a table for a large group of people, in celebration of an event well done. Lehtovaara was chosen as the venue that year.

Our experiences mirror yours perfectly. The supposedly elite restaurant provided rude, inadequate service, neglected the customers, mixed the orders, brought some wrong dishes, and left a couple of members of the group completely unassisted until this was pointed out explicitly (and reacted by handing them menus without a hint of apology).

Frankly, I am unable to believe that even a middling restaurant would manage to bungle a customer experience so thoroughly. I can think of exactly one reason for the debacle: intentional rudeness at a group of people the place doesn't consider their target audience. (We, too, were 25'ish academics or students, some casually dressed after wrapping up the event. The door service failed to point this out as a reason for snubbing.)

Needless to say, I have boycotted Lehtovaara ever since, and steered all dinner functions to some more deserving establishment. There are plenty, after all. I suggest any reader do likewise.

I'd be very interested in seeing how, exactly, the restaurant and its law firm intend to fine dissatisfied customers for restaurant critique.

//ebu

[nikke]

This entry is getting lots of attention in the Finnish blogging community:

http://blogilista.fi/hae.php?q=lehtovaara

Would you please publish some quotations from the letter?

[nikke]

Oops, in the press already:
http://www.taloussanomat.fi/etusivu/4310819.asp

[Juha]

I had never even heard about the restaurant Lehtovaara, until i read the news from www.digitoday.fi.

But i will definitely remember all this stuff if i see it somewhere. I try to avoid restaurants that sue their customers.

Well, at least they got publicity.

[Maija Haavisto]

Blogged this here: http://www.enterlehti.fi/blog/index.php?itemid=299

[Maija Haavisto]

Blogged this here: http://www.enterlehti.fi/blog/index.php?itemid=299

[Leskisen Tomppa]

There's no idea for the restaurant to even consider sending a threat letter.. I can't understand that kind of mentality, it makes me sick.

[zip]

This page is now number one for search of Antero Molander - And he thought having a bad review of your restaurant was a bad thing...

[Lauri Laakso]

Jesus! This is 2005.. these kinds of things shouldn't happen anymore.. I will cry myself to sleep for finally understanding that we live in a really underdeveloped world both mentally and physically. I hope you guys keep the flag of freedom up!

[Bill Ward]

Herkko,

You are my hero!

Bill

[Talous]

Hhehehe.

In my opinion if the restaurang suffers 5000 euro damages / month, it would be good business to restaurang offer you 2500 euro / each month and you would take the text off. Both parties would win.

:)

[John]

Irrespective of what has really happened, Lehtovaara is hereby declared as a winner in the "Shoot Yourself in the Foot" contest.

[Nicolas]

I'd say, that the restaurant is pretty soon holding up their promises of 5000 euros loss per month.

If anyones having Lehtovaara shares, it wouldn't seem be a bad time to sell ASAP.

[Maksaja]

Hi! All i can say is that you are not alone with this one. About same time you have had your bad experience we had a business dinner around 15 people at Lehtovaara also and shared a similar customer service and that was -> Lousy service!

After that it has been an "inside" joke about having dinner at Lehtovaara.. It sure made my day when i saw this today at digitoday.fi.

Keep on going!!

[clvrmnky]

I don't do no steenking Trackbacks. Sorry. See URL.

[anna]

Wohoo! They get a lot of "nice" publicity around, I found it in Boingboing...
So guess ONE place which is for sure where I'm not going to eat when I go with my mac to Helsinki? :)
Entertainingly brainless and priceless to sue you .. for having received bad service.

[Larry]

Don't eat at Lehtovaara restaurant.

[Larry]

Don't eat at Lehtovaara restaurant.

[Pauliina]

Täytyy nyt vähän puolustaa, kun paikkaa lyödään kuin vierasta sikaa. Meillä on perheessä ollut tapana käydä Lehtovaarassa syömässä aina isompien juhlien ja valmistujaisten yhteydessä. Kerta kerran jälkeen palvelu ja ruoka on ollut loistavaa ja illasta on jäänyt oikein miellyttäviä muistoja.

Luonnollisestikaan aloittajan kuvailemalle illalle, saati Lehtovaaran jatkotoimenpiteille, ei ole puolustusta, mutta oman kokemukseni mukaan Lehtovaaran palvelussa ei ole ollut mitään vikaa.

[K. Hanén]

Hello. We had a similar experience in Lehtovaara. We published a review on our website ruokakerho.tk and contacted them by e-mail. They replied quickly with apologies but they also demanded the review to be removed with hints of legal action. We replied that we would do no such thing. We have not heard from them since. Apparently their threats are not to be taken lightly. We wish you luck in this fight against stupidity.

[Hanna Iivonen]

Wau... Aika uskomaton tarina ja moista toimintaa Lehtovaaralta. Aina kun olin siellä, palvelu on ollut moitteetonta. Mutta outoa jos he pistävät uhkakirjeitä, eivätkä tahtoneet keskustella asiasta. Onkohan vakihenkilöstö lomalla vai mikä IHME oli kun palvelu oli noin kehnoa...

[Jarno Heikkilä]

Kiitos hyvästä infosta Ravintola Lehtovaarasta tiedän kiertää sen kaukaa!

[Sami Saarinen]

I travel past the Lehtovaara restaurant almost every day. I think I´ve never been inside, since there are so (too) many restaurants to choose from, even the good ones are plentiful. Just havent had an opportunity/time to go there, and I do go out to these kinds of places.

Now I´m definetely going. They propably have more room and a "must serve customer to perfection" attitude.

[nikke]

This page is number one in Google for "Antero Molander".

[Gerry Adams]

Having lived here in Finland for 4 years, and having visited many of Hki's best restaurants, I think I'm qualified to say that customer service (all aspects of it) is the only think the retaurant culture is truly lagging behind other places in Europe (not to mention other continents).
For me, it's a basic expectation of the waiters to know what they're serving (including ingredients of food, differences between wines etc). Then the other big part is the serving etiquette - almost nonexistent.
Hki is so great in so many ways, so why is there this huge blind spot?
Also, (one of the) the owner's attitude is just ridiculous. Sounds like there's no soul in the place, and apparently not any in the owner either.

[Perttu]

Truly unbelievable. I just sent an e-mail to the restaurant (with BCC to Herkko) telling them they make me sick and that I will boycott them forever if this case goes to court. (Who'd want to eat there anyway if the service is that bad?)

The point being: Lehtovaara seems to know even less of freedom of speech than they know of customer service.

[I.L.]

I have eaten couple of times in Lehtovaara and the food was delicious. I don't remember having any problem with service either. Still relatively good reputation of this restaurant can't be total bull****. Anyway, sending this legal threat letter was simply a very stupid move! Why didn't they just apologize and admit that some times bad service just happens..

[J A]

It is an unbelievable story! I have been in restaurant life in my whole life, life has been taking me in different places, sometimes I have ups and sometimes I have downs. Right now, I own a bar in fareast, in our bar we have 11 waitresses and about 45 dancers (prostitutes) so the business what Im running is definitely not to be proud of, so our customers are basically males over 50 yrs. old who have difficulties to get laid in their own countries and we also get complains. You can only imagine what kind of complaints we get. Even those times when the complaints are rediculous or even painful to read or hear, we still answer and react promptly. I have been living in Finland more than 35 years in my life, so I know exactly what kind of reputation that Lehtovara has, or should I say had? If I would be the owner of that resto, I would sell it immediately at whatever price and pretend that there is no problem at all because this damage what has ocurred is impossible to fix anymore.

[Stello]

Hyvä tietää, minne EI kannata mennä syömään Suomen-matkoilla.. Kerronpa samalla kaikille tutuille (jotka eivät seuraa blogeja tai pahemmin muitakaan nettisivuja), ettei Lehtovaarassa näköjään arvosteta asiakkaita ollenkaan. Eivät sitten erehdy menemään moiseen ravintolaan..

[La Fuu]

Herkko-pojulla noussut kusi päähän kun on päässyt seurustelemaan henkilöiden, jotka ovat syntyneet kalustetuissa huoneissa, kanssa. Jos poju ei osaa itse kaataa vettä lasiin, niin parempi jättää reklamaatiot tekemättä.

La Fuu

[Loka]

Lehtovaaran meininki on kuin DDR:n 70-luvulla, siellä kommarit laittoivat asiakkaan vankilaan jos kehtasi valittaa valtion ravintolan ruuasta. Laihaa kaalikeittoa jossa höysteenä oli ripaus rotanlihaa ja kärpäsia oli turistinkin syytä vain kehua jos halusi vielä maasta uloskin. Koskaan en mennyt takaisin mutta DDR kuoli pois ihan omia aikojaan ja niin kuolee Lehtovaarakin.

[teedub]

This is a wonderful story - the best of luck to law student and internet activist Herkku. You might consider setting up a legal defence fund, that would surely attract some contributions. I'd be tempted to ask the court to throw out the application on the grounds it is entirely frivolous, but on the other hand, it might be fun to watch the lawyer assemble his case, and the quantum of damages. If you have the time.
Oh and by the way, the restaurant was fine last time I went, but by God, there's no way in hell I'm going back. The market votes with it's feet.

[Juha Kuikka]

You might ask a commission from Lehtovaara for the increased business caused by your free enhancement of their publicity. I am sure there are a lot of clients going there these days just to find out what kind of a place is it.
However, I am sad that such a famous and cherished place like Lehtovaara has landed into hands of somebody who is so stupid to handle this kinds of things. He can not be very good as a businessman or restaurant owner either.

[Joona I Palaste]

When I originally heard this story I was astonished. How can the restaurant owner be that arrogant and stupid? Does he think the world revolves around him? I have never eaten at restaurant Lehtovaara and now that I have read this, I never will.

[noname]

my personal view is that assholes like this blogger should all belong behind bars. lehtovaara is a truly excellent restaurant! try get a job at your nearest tabloid if you want to spread junk. you may as well be too lazy for it.

[noname]

my personal view is that assholes like this blogger should all belong behind bars. lehtovaara is a truly excellent restaurant! try get a job at your nearest tabloid if you want to spread junk. you may as well be too lazy for it.

[noname]

my personal view is that assholes like this blogger should all belong behind bars. lehtovaara is a truly excellent restaurant! try get a job at your nearest tabloid if you want to spread junk. you may as well be too lazy for it.

and what do you kids know about DDR anyway. nothing! go back to your playgrounds and stay away from the places where grown-ups go. silly kids...

[noname]

sanotaan nyt vielä kerran että hemmetisti sapettaa se että tämän blogin juippi vaarantaa erään helsingissä pisimpään toimineen ravintolan toiminnan. toivotavasti bloggerikin oppii jotain asiasta. onnea elämään. tällaisella asenteella sitä tarvitaan.

[katarina]

Työskentelen tarjoilijana eräässä helsinkiläisessä lehtovaaran tasoisessa "hienossa" ravintolassa ja samalla alalla olevana kauhistuin lukiessani miten herkon seuruetta kohdeltiin.
on omituista miten surkeaa palvelua täkäläisissä ravintoloissa voi saada. tuntuu, että suomalaisilla on asennevammoja palvelualoilla, varsinkin ravintoloissa. liekö se 70-luvulta alkaneen tasapäistämisen ja käytöstapojen rappion tulos, vai olemmeko vain niin junttia porukkaa.

googlasin lehtovaaran aikomuksena mennä sinne syömään tänään, mutta sen sijaan sainkin lukea herkon kirjoittaman jutun ja valitsin aivan toisen ravintolaan. perusteena se, miten ravintola suhtautui palautekirjeeseen. jokaisen järkevän ravintoloitsijan olisi ymmärrettävä miten perustavanlaatuisen tärkeä on kliseinen sananlasku "asiakas on aina oikeassa" heidän toimeentulonsa kannalta.
tökerön tarjoilijan puolustukseksi tosin huomautan, että kiireisinä iltoina tarjoilijan työ voi olla ammattien stressaavimmasta päästä, etenkin jos henkilökuntaa ei ole tarpeeksi.

[Alex]

Great! I moved abroad because the service in Finland is at it's best on avoidable level! I have never visited Ravintola Lehtovaara - but thank you for the information.
It will never happen. - Amazing behaviour - they should appologise and offer you something in return. First they spoil your evening - you pay for it! I am happy to link to this site : )

[AAA]

Haluaisin tietää, miten tämä asia on edennyt?

Hain netistä tänään hyvää ravintolaa ulkomaisten liikekumppanien tapaamiseen, mutta taidankin kiertää Lehtovaaran kaukaa. Mitä tästä pitäisi päätellä? Esim. amerikkalaiset yritysvieraani (kuten mm. IT-alalla tyypillisesti pitävät rennosta pukeutumisesta, farkut jne.) joten oletettavasti olisimmeko saaneet huonoa palvelua koska emme todennäköisesti vastaa Lehtovaaran kohderymää ainakaan pukeutumisemme osalta? Pitääkö ovella vilauttaa platinakorttia ennen sisääntuloa hyvän palvelun varmistamiseksi? Lehtovaaran hinnoilla luulisi henkilökunnan ymmärtävän etteivät "varattomat" astuisi edes ovesta sisään, vaan että kysymyksessä täytyy olla asiakas joka Lehtovaaran hyvän maineen nojalla saapuu paikalle odottaen täydellistä ravintolakokemusta ja on valmis siitä maksamaan. Ehkä ainoastaan kanta-asiakkaat saavat siellä hyvää palvelua?

Kuten jo markkinoinnin oppikirjoissa markkinatutkimusten antamalla malliesimerkillä on opetettu jo 80-luvulla: huonon ravintolakokemuksen korjautuminen vaatii 11 uusintakäyntiä, ennen kuin se palautuu takaisin lähtötasolle. Huonot palvelukokemukset ovat siis ravintolan liiketoiminnalle erittäin vaarallisia. Ilmankos Yhdysvalloissa ravintolat korjaavat tai korvaavat asiakkaan pienimmätkin valitukset tavalla tai toisella todella herkästi. Ehkäpä näiden suomalaisten ravintolaomistajien olisi syytä hankkia edes markkinoinnin peruskoulutus.

Hyvä maine Lehtovaaralla on ollut, mutta silti! Suomessa saa perinteisesti keskimäärin surkeaa palvelua, se on jo todettu, eikä monissa ravintoloissa meno ole yhtään parantunut.

Esim. Manalan (vaikka ei olekaan mikään laaturavintola) ovimiesten käytös on ehdottomasti törkeintä mitä olen Helsingissä nähnyt, joutuupa heidän silmätikukseen humalassa tai täysin selvinpäin oleva asiakas. Siellä (selvinpäin huonoa kokemusta saaneena) kieltäydyn käymästä ellei sinne Helsingin suosittuna menopaikkana joskus joudu pakosta menemään, kun liikekumppanien seurue sinne jostain syystä väkisin johdattaa. Eikä tämä ole ainoa esimerkki huonosta palvelusta.

Mitä tulee ravintolan johdon palvelutasoon: Eräs törkeimpiä tapauksia oli erään hyvin tunnetun pubi-ketjun (jossa on matot pöydillä) yksittäinen ravintolaliike, jonka ravintolapäällikön kanssa oli etukäteen sovittu lupa konsertin jälkeisille akustisille jameille. Näistä jatkoista tiedotettiin konsertin asianomaisille esiintyville arvovaltaisille muusikoille erikseen. Illan aikana jotkut pubin "kanta-asiakkaat" olivat valittaneet baarihenkilökunnalle soitosta (jota ravintolassa ei ilmeisesti normaalisti kuule) ja henkilökunta sen seurauksena lopetti tilaisuuden kesken, vaikka asiasta oli ennakolta sovittu ravintolapäällikön kanssa. Koska kysymyksessä oli illanvietto josta oli ennakkoon tiedotettu, ilta meni tietenkin kutsuvieraiden (muusikot) osalta pilalle, puhumattakaan paikalle saapuneesta yleisöstä. Talo oli aivan täynnä. Sekä muusikot että yleisö käyttäytyivät erittäin korrektisti. Bisneksen menetyksestä ei ole voinut olla kyse, koska paikalla oleva ravintolavastaavakin vastasi kysyttäessä ettei myynnissä ollut mitään ongelmaa. Ravintola vain päätti suosia kanta-asiakkaitaan sen sijaan, että erikseen sovitusta illanvietosta olisi pidetty kiinni. Sama tilaisuus on ko. ravintolassa pidetty muuten aikaisempinakin vuosina (jota uusi johto ei voinut tietää), eli mekin olimme eräänlaisia kanta-asiakkaita. Kävin henkilökohtaisesti neuvottelut paikalla olleen ravintolahenkilökunnan kanssa tästä "ongelmasta" eikä mihinkään sopimukseen voitu päästä illan jatkamisen suhteen. Kello oli puolen yön paikkeilla, joten "vahinko" (ei kuitenkaan taloudellinen) oli tietyssä mielessä jo tapahtunut, eikä iltamme pilaaminen hyödyttänyt ketään. Kokeneena liikeneuvottelijana (illan järjestämiseen osallistuneena olin tietysti selvin päin) osaan kyllä keskustella vastuuhenkilöiden kanssa asiallisesti, joten sekään ei voi olla selitys tälle outoudelle. Liikealalla olen sentään tottunut siihen että sovituista asioista pidetään kiinni, ja seuraavalla kerralla ei sitten sovita uudestaan jos jokin asia ei toimi. Ravintolapäällikkö tässä tapauksessa kyllä pyysi anteeksi, joten oppi varmaan läksynsä ja se siitä. Se ei kuitenkaan korvaa vahinkoa kerran vuodessa järjestettävän tapahtuman illanvieton epäonnistumisesta.

Asiakaskäyttäytymisen suhteen voi olla, että ravintola-asiakas ei aina ole ihan oikeassa, sillä totta on että monet suomalaiset asiakkaat eivät hallitse sivistyneen ravintolakäytöksen perustaitojakaan, varsinkaan alkoholin vaikutuksen alaisina, joten jokainen ravintola joutuu valitsemaan tapansa reagoida ongelmatapauksiin. Silti tähän ravintoloiden yleiseen palveluongelmaan, niin "laatu-" kuin "tavallisissa" ravintoloissa olisi kuitenkin jo korkea aika tapahtua tasonparannusta. Asiakas sentään maksaa ravintolahenkilökunnan palkat ja omistajien voitot, joten toivottavaa olisi että asiakkaalle osattaisiin edes olla kohteliaita ja pitää kiinni sovituista asioista! Äänestäkäämme siis lompakoillamme ja välttäkäämme näitä paikkoja.

Kannatan että huonot kokemukset saavat suurempaa julkisuutta. Ehkäpä netti tuo tähän jotain muutosta kun muuten ei tapahdu mitään. Lehtovaaralla on ollut kaikki mahdollisuudet reagoida asiallisesti, mutta oikeuden toteutumiseksi, toivottavasti blogin ylläpitäjä julkaisee myös Lehtovaaran vastineen, mikäli asiassa tapahtuu positiivista kehitystä. Kyllä tyhmyydellekin voi suoda anteeksiantoa jos syyllinen tunnustaa tyhmyytensä.